Ben Starr

The Ultimate Food Geek

The Ethics of Eating Meat

This great debate about meat just keeps on coming, and I couldn’t be more pleased.  I received a remarkable email from a fan who has been vegetarian since age 10, and I’d like to share a portion of it:

“The ethics of meat eating have been on my mind since I spent five weeks in rural Ecuador working with a water NGO at the beginning of the summer.  I was staying with a host family and eager to experience the culture and help out around the home, which, one Sunday after the weekly meant helping pick out, slaughter, and pluck a rooster for dinner.  (You can see my host brother with the rooster in the picture.)  I then had the honor of burning off the tougher parts of the skin which was a little bit of a harrowing experience at times when bits of it caught on fire.  I confess – I found the whole thing pretty unsettling.  The rooster didn’t seem terribly happy about the whole process, and if anything, the experience strengthened my resolve to be a vegetarian.  I know people refer to it as the animal “sacrificing itself” but the animal didn’t really have any choice or agency in the process.

So here’s my question: It’s so rare to hear from someone like you who actually kills their own livestock and I would love your perspective on why you think it’s ethical to eat meat.  You seem to have thought so much about the issue, and I really think you could add richness to my (and many other people’s) understanding of the other side of the debate.  In your last blog post, you mentioned that people have eaten meat for thousands of years.  But people have done lots of things for much of history — some good (agriculture, moral taboos against murder) and some bad (lack of women’s rights, lack of gay rights, lack of all kinds of minority rights, slavery), so time alone doesn’t make it ethical.  You also said that some animals would have gone extinct if we didn’t breed them, but just breeding or creating something doesn’t mean we have a right to kill it and eat it (as by that logic alone, parental cannibalism would be justified :P).  So can you talk more about the deeper issues of animal consciousness and rights and whatever else you think helps define the moral issues for you?  I know it would help broaden my worldview and I think it would help many other people too.”

Alyssa, thanks so much for sharing this story.  And, alas, I wish I could tell you that I’m as eloquent a philosopher as I am a writer.  But any debate on “ethics” or “morals” always ends up in a battle over what “ethics” or “morals” means in the first place.  And, to be honest, I don’t really know if there’s any possible way to define ethics or morals across any group of humans, much less the entire span of the human race.  Ethics and morals can truly only be embraced and embodied in a single individual.  Religions may claim to unite their followers under a single body of morals and ethics, but they never do.  Plenty of people in the religion I was raised in still believe it’s not right for a woman to speak in church, or for her to ever contradict her husband, but the majority have more progressive views.  Ethics and morals can only be defined by an individual, for an individual.  And that’s the outer-most boundary of any moral or ethic.  Laws can claim to spring from “universal morals” but I still don’t believe there is such a thing.  I think, under certain circumstances, it is moral to end the life of a human (ie euthanasia).  So the most popular “universal moral” of it being immoral to kill, isn’t, in fact, a moral that is universally applicable.

There are many ways to look at the meat eating issue.  One way is to say that, in nature, the food chain exists, and animals eat what their instincts drive them to.  Lions eat meat.  Cattle eat grass.  Dogs eat whatever they come across, like bears, but will kill live food if they are hungry and can’t find sustenance in berries or plants.  Our ancestors were hunter/gatherers.  They hunted meat, and they gathered edible plants from the wild.  It is in our nature to eat both meat and plants.  The dawn of civilization occurred when humans discovered they could cultivate BOTH animals and plants.  Had such rich animal protein sources not been available, the human race might have fallen extinct like our evolutionary ancestors did.  So, at least historically speaking, humans have eaten meat throughout the entire duration of our existence and evolutionary development.  Some vegetarians like to suggest that the biology of the human body is actually not “designed” to eat meat, because we don’t have pointed teeth like most carnivores, etc..  For every legitimate argument they present, there is a legitimate counter argument on the opposite side.  There is no conclusive scientific evidence that humans are biologically programmed to eat meat or not.  Regardless, for the entire duration of our existence, we have eaten meat.  And as a result of this, we have sheep, pigs, goats, cows, chickens, and a handful of other animals which had a genetic predisposition toward being domesticated.

That phrase alone is enough for me to justify eating meat for myself.  The vast majority of animal species on earth are not fit for domestication.  It would never be POSSIBLE to domesticate them.  But for a handful of animals, domestication happened almost spontaneously.  And whether you take a scientific outlook or intelligent-design outlook on our origin, both routes seem to point quite clearly at the fact that these creatures were meant to be domesticated as meat animals, either through the hands of a creator, or through the probability and adaptability that governs the theory of evolution.  A sheep may be able to provide wool for fabric, but at the end of its natural life, it has a rich source of life-giving protein that would be disrespectfully wasted if it was buried or cremated.  Of course, the carcass could be left for scavengers, but then we’ve upset the “natural balance” of things by providing unnatural excess for scavenging species, which will overtake local populations.

These domesticable species came into existence because we needed them for food and other purposes.  (And let’s not forget that ALL meat animals are utilized in many ways other than meat…chickens give eggs and feathers, cows give leather and their bones are used for fertilizer, etc.)  Should we have domesticated them in the first place?  Had we not, we may not, in fact, be here today.  Should we continue to domesticate them now that we have “evolved” and can make a moral choice to not eat meat?  What responsibility do we then bear for these species which would have no place in the wild without human husbandry?  Do we allow their entire species to die out from natural deaths?

This brings up another argument that vegans often tout…  We have progressed as a species to the point where we no longer NEED animal products to sustain the human race.  There are arguments on both sides of this fence from far wiser people than me.  While it’s true that it requires many, many pounds of vegetable calories to raise a pound of meat…and that many humans could be sustained (though perhaps not richly sustained) on that same amount of vegetable matter, rather than utilizing it for meat production to feed a far fewer number of humans…meat is a source of nutrients that is unmatched by anything outside the egg, which technically is also meat.  Some like to tout quinoa and hemp seed as the miracle foods that can provide the same complex amino acid base that gives meat its complete protein, and can therefore be a nutritional substitute for meat.  However, I cook extensively with both quinoa and hemp seed, and can vehemently say that to take my entire protein content from quinoa, hemp, and various beans does not result in a rich quality of life…TO ME.

Which is leading to my final point.  Yes, humans have progressed and advanced in many ways.  We are sentient and can make decisions governed by things which can be called morals and ethics.  We can also experience a higher level of pleasure and satisfaction than can our animal counterparts.  We love in a more complex way.  We take pleasure in things like art, literature, and food.  And for us to fulfill our own maximum potential as a species, I believe it is our duty to further these things to their own maximum potentials.  We must continue to write.  We must continue to create art and music and dance and theatre and film.  And we must continue to further the culinary arts.  It is our duty to, because we have the capacity to, as no other species on earth does.

A chicken’s potential, as a species, is not to be a companion, like a cat or a dog.  It can’t be potty trained.  It is insufferably and adorably stupid.  But it has the maximum potential to live as a chicken naturally lives: free of a cage, eating what it can scavenge, mating, laying eggs, roosting in trees at night, and providing a food source for coyotes and raptors and humans.  And as a provider of crude protein with both its meat and its eggs, and well as being a facilitator of the development and advancement of the culinary arts, the chicken’s maximum potential is to sustain life on a larger scale and a higher order.  A tiger’s maximum potential is to live unmolested in the forest, hunt for its food, and continue to balance the natural ecosystem.  In comparison, a chicken has a far greater potential in this universe than a tiger.  And not to help the chicken achieve that potential is, in my opinion, immoral.

No, I do not believe animals are “equal” to humans.  If given the choice, I will preserve the life of a human child over a young animal any day.  Animals are a lesser order of life on this planet.  Yet we have the ability as humans to help them fulfill a far greater destiny and contribution to the universe than just existing and dying, un-utilized by us.  We have the power to cram them into cages, torture them, kill them and eat them.  But this is an evil and irresponsible choice.  We have the power to give them a natural life that allows them to fulfill their natural potential, and then die…in order to fulfill a potential far greater than their own existence in the first place.  And this is the moral choice.  To ignore them as a species and their potential to be utilized to advance and enrich human life on earth is, in fact, immoral to me.

The death of an animal sustains life on a higher order.

To me, the world could not be any more beautiful and perfect, simply because of that.  It does not sadden me that meat animals are killed to sustain our life.  That is, in fact, their purpose.  Were it not, a chicken would be like a sparrow or a leopard…incapable of domestication.  The chicken’s evolutionary path merged with the human’s because that was both our destinies.  And we have sustained and enriched the chicken species far beyond what it ever could have in nature, had it not offered us a domesticable, rich source of food to sustain life for us.  Were it not for the chicken, our species might never have survived.  Were it not for the chicken, our species would definitely have never THRIVED.

I see no moral drawbacks to the eating of meat, provided the animal it came from lived a life that allowed it to fulfill its nature.  And its penultimate nature is to take its place on the food chain and sustain a higher form of life.  To me, this is, in fact, living in harmony with our planet.

I would absolutely love to hear what you all have to say on this matter, please comment below.  And for further reading, the New York Times hosted an essay contest on the ethics of meat eating, and the essays can be read at this link.

I also highly recommend the works of Michael Pollan, a food journalist, and Joel Salatin, a farmer.  (Both can be ruminated upon in Polan’s book The Omnivore’s Dilemma, where he spends a good deal of time at Salatin’s farm.)

35 responses to “The Ethics of Eating Meat”

  1. richardzowie Avatar

    I have a very subjective rule: if a vegan smokes (and, believe it or not, some do), they have no business telling me eating meat is unhealthy.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Most of the vegans I know do not preach veganism because it’s healthy. They preach it because they believe it is immoral to kill or exploit animals as a food source.

  2. Amber Ivy Avatar

    Thank you so much for posting this, Ben! I have been struggling with things because a friend of mine feels it’s necessary to bombard my FB and Tumblr with Pro-Vegan anti-meat pictures, videos, and stories. While she is not bashing anyone for their choice, multi posts a day of chickens being tortured, and every other kind of horror story about meat, can really wear a person down. I had thought about giving up meat, which I love so much. But I couldn’t do it! So, after reading your post, I’ve decided to be more “Meat-wise” and really look into how my meat is sourced and things. I fully believe, as long as the animal is treated as humanely as possible, there is nothing wrong with consuming its meat or other products. Thanks for this wonderful post!!!

    1. Ben Avatar

      Hooray for you, Amber! Not because you chose meat, but because you thought for yourself and made a decision that the world will be better for.

    2. Gregory Wright Avatar

      Amber, if your friend is not bashing anyone for their choice, she should NOT be bombarding your FB page with those images. You should politely ask her to stop that if it bothers you.

  3. Gregory Wright Avatar

    I believe that nature made us omnivores. The only reason vegans are able to eat the way they do is because technology and research has progressed to a point where they can find the necessary substitutes for the protein we usually get from meat. Not because we’ve evolved into creatures who don’t need meat. (Just my own opinion) Now I have no qualm with anyone who chooses to go vegan or vegetarian, and they certainly are welcome to have whatever reasons they choose. And I won’t question it, no matter how much I may disagree. Where I start to have an issue is when someone tries to tell ME how I should be eating and bringing ethics and morality into the game. We all have differing ethics and values. In many cases entire cultures have a completely different set than we do. I respect that. So I’d prefer not to have my own ethics and morals question because I choose to eat meat. Having said that, I want to be certain to state that I do not believe Alyssa to be judging anyone and is asking a respectful question to try and understand the opposing view. And I love that I get to read this debate from two respectful sides.

    1. Amber Ivy Avatar

      There needs to be a like button, Gregory!! Well said!

    2. Ben Avatar

      Greg, I too feel that Alyssa’s question was asked in earnest humble curiosity. She has obviously been struck by this amazing conversation that’s going on, and I really appreciate her for reaching out. (It should also be noted that I posted parts of her email without her permission…I was just so excited to write about this topic.) I feel like she has really been a wonderful voice to further this debate.

  4. Crystal Graham Avatar
    Crystal Graham

    Thank you so much for writing about this deeply debated topic. I stopped eating all meats other than chicken and seafood over a year ago, and stopped eating chicken (my favorite source of protein) a little over two months ago. I have always struggled with the ethics of eating meat, and have done quite a bit of heartbreaking research on the topic of factory farms and slaughter houses. I hold no judgement for those that choose to eat meat, but as you said in this blog, we have the means to treat these animals with tr utmost respect from their birth and to their death. America has become an extremely greedy, money hungry country and the animals used for human consumption are the ones that suffer for it. I’ve been trying to think of ways we could start a movement to banish all factory farms and slaughterhouses, and put the responsibility back into the hands of farmers (who only use humane and compassionate methods to raise and slaughter the animals). It seems like an impossible task, but I would love to help make this a reality. Any ideas?

    1. Ben Avatar

      Crystal, unfortunately, the capitalist system (which is the best system we’ve got) will always favor industrial mass production. It’s not going anywhere. (Luckily, large retailers like Walmart have far more control over the industrial system than the government does, so making wise buying decisions at your retailers will send a signal to the industrial ag magnates that we WANT free range, humanely treated, organic meat.)

      The bright light at the end of the tunnel is that we do have a choice, thanks to capitalism. Because there are always those of us who WILL seek out small producers who take care of their animals, and who can make a profit because we support them. So get yourself on Craigslist and start buying from a local farmer!

  5. Emily Grace Avatar
    Emily Grace

    This wonderfully well written and beautiful article. The arguments moved fluidly through both scientific and philosophical arguments with a great amount of respect for those who might take an opposing view point.

    I myself have often debated the ethics of meat consumption which has lead me to consume animal protein in greater moderation. I have been following the various blog posts and responses with great interest. I believe it is important to recognize when eat something dies, but something is also given the chance to thrive as a result. This death occurs whether our consumption is plant or animal matter. What I believe is important is to respect this life balance and to recognize that to live is to cause destruction, so therefore we must make the most of this energy to do something to better the world.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Emily, you sound like someone with a liberal arts background. I love it. Your words are dense and meaningful. Thank you SO MUCH for sharing!

  6. Anony Mouse Avatar
    Anony Mouse

    Don’t have pointed teeth? My cuspids would like to dispute that claim. Especially mine, since mine got pushed forward and up, and really look like vampire teeth. Likewise, center set eyes is a hallmark of the predator with most true herbivores having eyes on the sides of their heads. There’s also growing research that early hominid brains developed not just because of eating meat, but because they were able to -cook- their meat.

    Er, sorry. Didn’t mean to hijack your soap box there, Ben. That being said, I agree whole-heartedly with your post. Which was far more eloquent and far less… ah… aggressive… than I think I could be.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Ha ha ha…thanks AnonyMouse. The whole no-fangs argument is much loved by those who wish to prove that we are not evolved to be meat eaters. I am not widely schooled on this argument, so I can’t defend it properly. Perhaps someone can step in?!?!

  7. Kerensa Avatar
    Kerensa

    While I personally could never kill or eat an animal, I don’t think that it is inherently unethical as long as the animal is treated with dignity and respect. Unfortunately, over 90% of the animals raised for meat in this country are not. And that’s the problem. As Jonathan Safran Foer points out in Eating Animals, people who are against factory farming practices continue to purchase factory farmed meat. That being a meat eater who only eats ethically produced meat is actually quite difficult (in the US) and maybe even more difficult than being vegetarian. I am by no means claiming innocence myself on this matter – while I try my best to purchase dairy and eggs from ethical sources, I know that much of what I purchase does not truly provide significantly better living conditions for animals, even if it may be “organic.” But I do not believe I can live healthily as a vegan (although others can and do) and so this is the bargain that I make. And all of us are trapped in a system that puts profit over ethics at every turn, in every industry.

    Back to the question of meat. The most common complaint about ethically produced meat is that it is too expensive. But it is the cost savings of factory farming that put meat at the front and center of every plate in America. Traditional animal husbandry is land-intensive and time-intensive. If factory farming were abolished tomorrow, very few people would be able to afford to eat meat in the quantities that they currently do. It simply isn’t possible. So for those who are against the evils of factory farming, it is important to acknowledge what a world without factory farming would look like, and that is largely vegetarian, at least comparatively speaking. A key part of the challenge of helping people reject factory farming is showing them how to make delicious and satisfying meals with less meat. Otherwise they will just say that the organic/free range/local farmer produced meat is too expensive and just continue on their way with eating tons of factory farmed meat.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Kerensa, SUCH astute commentary. And this is the crux of the matter. We can talk all we want about the evils of industrial agriculture, but every time we buy industrial meat at the grocery store, we support the system we decry. Unfortunately, most of us don’t have the TIME to ensure that every bit of meat we eat is responsibly raised and cruelty free. This is why I encourage baby steps. Get out one weekend a month to an open house at a local farm and get some local meat. Or join a local organic coop which does the work for you of inspecting the farms, and then you know that everything that shows up in your box each week or month is solid stuff. And I love your suggestion about finding ways to use LESS meat.

  8. Jamie Gardner Avatar

    This is not about the ethics of eating meat, but it is about where food comes from – which is how this all started, after all! 😉 It’s some information from H-E-B regarding their meat and eggs that I wanted to share with you and your readers/fans/followers/fellow Texans:

    “H-E-B Natural Angus Beef has no added hormones, no antibiotics and no additives or preservatives. Our cattle are also vegetarian fed, and all of our beef’s attributes are monitored and verified by the USDA.

    Organic Eggs: These eggs are never caged and have access to outdoors. Typically it is a fenced grassy area. The chicken house can be moved from spot to spot so that the grass is regularly fresh. The house has a shaded porch. There may or may not be trees in the vicinity of the house. Predators are a very real threat at egg farms. It is impossible to allow hens 100% access to outdoors at all times. As a rule the hens come inside at night and the doors are closed to keep the foxes and coyotes out. The hens eat only 100% organic feed.

    Cage Free: As the type suggests there are no cages in the chicken house. The house has large screened windows to allow in fresh air and natural light. These hens do not always have access to outdoors. The hen jumps up into her nest to lay the egg and is free to roam and scratch around the house at all times.

    Traditional Caged: Most eggs in the US come from caged hens. At HEB our egg supplier is United Egg Producers Certified. “Produced in compliance with United Egg Producer’s animal husbandry guidelines”. The UEP worked with the USDA, the FDA and an independent scientific advisory committee to develop the guidelines which is recognized within the grocery and food services industries in the US as humane (www.uepcertified.com). The size of the cage and number of hens raised in the cage are in strict accordance with the guidelines. The houses have large screened windows to allow in fresh air and sunlight.”

    1. Ben Avatar

      Good information, Jamie! Some people equate the “free range” label on commercial eggs to mean that the hens are scratching around in a grassy pasture beneath a tree, when that’s not the reality at all. It’s good to look up the origins behind the labels you see in the grocery store so you understand what you’re getting.

  9. Sam Bernard Avatar

    “The death of an animal sustains life on a higher order” … I think that sums it up quite nicely.

    We, like all organisms on this planet have roles to fulfill. As sentient and sapient creatures, we have an opportunity to live out these roles intentionally, rather than as mindless products of our base instincts. That doesn’t mean we have to throw out the messy parts of our existence, such as eating meat. Instead, we have a unique opportunity to appreciate and respect the lives of creatures who die to sustain us and have a responsibility to do so without cruelty.

    That being said- I’m not there yet: I still consume industrial animal products. There’s a level of practicallity required that I haven’t mastered yet. However, the gap between what my conscience says to be right and what I’m actually doing is narrowing.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Great perspective, Sam. I still consume industrial animal products, too. It’s really unavoidable unless you live on a farm or have someone in your household dedicated solely to food sourcing. But we can take baby steps, like occasionally filling our freezer with meat from a nearby farm, or getting meat at the farmer’s market…or supporting industrial products that are humane and free-range.

  10. Interested bystander Avatar
    Interested bystander

    About the teeth. Humans do have teeth consistent with omnivores. If you look at cattle, as an example of an herbivore, they lack upper incisors (the tearing teeth) and have much larger molars with heavy, deeply grooved, grinding surfaces. This allows them to really grind the harder vegetable matter down. Our molars are far less grooved, and are smaller and less thick, which is why you might crack a tooth on food herbivores chew with little effort. In addition, humans lack the enzyme that would allow us to break down cellulose (a form of sugar found in plants) into a useable food source (thus we can’t eat grass for food). However, because we do have decent molars and only somewhat pointed canine teeth, we are clearly not meant only to eat meat.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Good information, thanks for sharing!

  11. G Avatar
    G

    Let me start with this: kudos to everyone for the well thought and well written posts. This is a really interesting conversation to follow. And thanks Ben for facilitating this. This is clearly a controversial topic. As I read people’s comments and try to understand different positions and opinions, I cannot help but reflect on how lucky we all are to be able to afford the opportunity to engage in this type of conversation. For the huge majority of the world, this could easily be seen as extremely lucky people with great easy lives engaging in semi philosophical conversations that would be really different, if not completely irrelevant, pretty much anywhere else in the world. That is not to say that, being in the position we are, we shouldn’t do what we’re doing. But gosh, if the ethics of food is a problem worth discussing, then how darn lucky am I that that’s a “problem” in my life.

    1. Ben Avatar

      This is a very important perspective. We are only having this conversation because we live a luxurious life compared to much of the world. Unfortunately, it is that luxury that helped found the industrial ag system, which you won’t find in developing countries. So while they are in constant worry about where their food will come from, it is almost universally organic and free range in nature, because it takes affluence to afford pens and cages and commercial feeds and fertilizers and medicines and chemicals. But you are most definitely correct…we are SO fortunate in this country to have such an excess of food.

  12. KWP Avatar
    KWP

    My sister is a vegetarian who chooses to eat that way for health reasons. While she’s been eager to share her recipes and the cool food discoveries she’s made, never in a million years would she insult someone over a New York Strip. Yet there are some who think they can do the same to her. These snarky comments are “gastro-bullying” and this carnivore won’t stand for it.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Hear, hear! No one should ever be attacked or ridiculed for their food choices, unless it is actually harming those around them.

  13. Gene MD Avatar
    Gene MD

    Hi Ben,

    I was not going to jump in on this because of my Medical training. It would just start a war anyway and I am not here for that. I want to enjoy this site, and have.

    My view is this:
    Your writing style and views are very much along the lines of most Native Americans for which I am part. Your college back ground and being farm raised also shows your kindness. This is rare for most men…….

    Cheers,
    Gene MD

    1. Ben Avatar

      Thank you SO MUCH Gene! Your posts bring me such joy. I have Comanche blood in my veins…the great chief Quanah Parker’s mother, Cynthia Ann, was buried in my family cemetery before being moved, appropriately, to her son’s cemetery in Oklahoma. The Parkers and their Comanche descendents were my father’s ancestors. I feel too far removed from the great tribes to talk about this most of the time. Generally, I feel guilty when I consider the atrocities wrought upon them. But even though I look and feel “European/Caucasian,” the nearness to the earth is in my blood and has been in my family for generations.

  14. Alyssa Avatar
    Alyssa

    Sorry for the delayed response here. This is Alyssa. I’m so glad that Ben posted this and that people are engaging in this debate. I don’t pretend that I have all (or really any) of the answers, but I hope that by exploring these questions we can all learn a little more.

    For those who might be interested, I became a vegetarian because I subscribe to Peter Singer’s idea that if an entity can feel pleasure and pain (and a preference for the former) then the moral choice is to not inflict pain whenever possible. I don’t pretend that I fulfill this goal perfectly, but I think it’s best to have what for me is an honest moral calculus, even if I fail sometimes. I think that if I’m inflicting pain on another entity, there should be a very good reason why and it should be pretty much unavoidable – and since I can have a healthy, delicious vegetarian diet for a lower cost and lower environmental impact than a meat-eating diet, I don’t think I could justify it to myself to eat meat. But truth be told, I never really liked red meat so it is probably less of a sacrifice for me than for most people, and I remain unsure and conflicted about other issues such as animal testing.

    A lot of people have talked on this thread about whether people are built to eat meat. I don’t know personally – as a lot of people have said, there’s some evidence that people are (e.g. our canine teeth) and some that we’re not (e.g. that unlike most carnivores, we cannot safely eat raw meat). But personally I don’t think that matters either way. Evolution is based on the idea if a trait increases “reproductive success” (leads people to have more babies) and can be passed down genetically, the trait will become more common. Because evolution takes a long time and humans have been hunter-gatherers for most of our existence, most traits determined by evolution developed during the 10,000 years or so that we were foragers during the “environment of evolutionary adaptedness” (EEA if you like science speak). The thing is – whether a trait made a hunger-gatherer more likely to have more babies (and therefore selected for by evolution) has NOTHING to do with whether something is moral. In fact, many traits which were evolutionarily advantageous, such as sleeping around and cheating on one’s spouse, are considered very immoral today. So I don’t think whether we evolved to do something has much weight either way.

    I do think, though, that the discussion about rights and consciousness is incredibly valuable. I think that Ben and I have a lot in common – we both think that unnecessary suffering and torture should be prevented as much as possible. We may disagree on where the line is drawn – whether humans are truly of a “higher order” and whether eating animals falls into the category of an exception or not, and I don’t think that there is a clear answer here. But I think that it is best to have discussion, to be mindful of the difficulties and the links between our beliefs and realities of the meat market, and to struggle with the moral ambiguities until each person can reach a working conclusion on which to base day-to-day decisions.

    Finally, speaking of mindfulness, I want to thank G for bringing up a larger issue about which I personally feel very passionate. There are very large global problems and incredible amounts of suffering that barely touch our lucky lives here in the US. I know that thinking about these harsh realities can be incredibly overwhelming. It is hard to conceive of the fact that 1 in 6 people in the world lack access to clean water and that 7.6 million children under 5 died from largely preventable diseases last year. It’s even harder to think about how we can possibly make a dent in the suffering. Of course, people will differ – and rightly so – in how much they devote of their lives and resources toward dealing with global poverty, but when you decide how much you will get involved, make sure that it is not a decision based on ignorance and a desire to hide from sad truths but one based on information and an examination of your own conscience. Mother Teresa once said, “The problem with the world is that we draw the circle of our family too small.” And having spent a month crouched on dirt floors in bamboo homes, hearing mothers and fathers tell me how they wish someone would make sure they had clean water to give their children, I think she had a point.

    Thanks everyone for talking about these important issues and for the opportunity to challenge and develop my beliefs. I know I’ve learned a lot, and I hope you’ve enjoyed it too.

  15. mijnheer Avatar
    mijnheer

    I appreciate the fact that you’ve tried to think this issue through. However, I must say that you seem to be coming from a pre-modern, teleological view of nature, of the sort that Aristotle or Thomas Aquinas might have endorsed. The idea that some animals were “meant” to be domesticated and eaten is bizarre from a scientific point of view.

    You repeatedly speak of “morals and ethics”. Are you distinguishing between those two terms, or are you just throwing them both out there together with the hope that, whatever they mean, you’re covering all the bases? I ask because you’re far from alone in doing this. Unless one specifies a difference (which can be done), it’s rather as if I were to keep saying “people and humans”.

    If you’re seriously interested in an evolutionary perspective on the issue of how we ought to treat animals, you might look at Created from Animals: The Moral Implications of Darwinism:
    http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/LifeSciences/Ecology/AnimalBehavior/?view=usa&ci=9780192861290

    And if you want a comprehensive look at animal ethics, including the issue of eating meat, consider Animals and Ethics: An Overview of the Philosophical Debate:
    http://www.broadviewpress.com/product.php?productid=951&cat=12&page=1

    1. Ben Avatar

      “The idea that some animals were “meant” to be domesticated and eaten is bizarre from a scientific point of view.” That depends on what kind of scientist you are. I was introduced to this view by the writings of Darwin, who was, in fact, a scientist. Only a slight handful of species had the potential for domestication. That potential can be quantified and scientifically explained.

      But my post was not intended to be scientifically grounded. The choice to take a life is not a scientific choice. We are dealing with potently esoteric concepts in this debate. It is not a debate that science will ever be able to answer.

      I do not distinguish between the terms “morals” and “ethics” because I believe semantics complicates this issue unnecessarily. Not many of those reading my posts spent 8 years in liberal arts college and are eager to enter into an endless and irreconcilable discussion of petty semantics, so I dismissed it outright. The conversation is about whether it is OKAY for humans to eat meat, or whether it is NOT OKAY. Ultimately, this issue can only be decided on an individual basis. No one can decide it for me except for me. No one can decide it for you except for you. Morals and ethics do not exist except within a single individual. I do not believe in universal morals, or transcendent ethics. Period.

      For me, I believe the fact that a species had such qualities that it could be improved by even very primitive civilizations, and that an animal could ultimately transcend the potential of its own species in the wild and contribute to the progress of a higher species, is justification enough for me to humanely raise, kill, and consume animals.

  16. Sarah-Jane Avatar
    Sarah-Jane

    I’m not a vegan in any manner of the word, but I do have issues with eating meat on a regular basis. I don’t disagree with anything you said because those aren’t my issues. My main issue when it comes to eating meat is knowing that I’m supporting a farm that essentially tortures animals from the time they’re born to the moment they die. In a chicken farm, once the eggs are hatched, all the males are sent to a crusher and killed because they can’t provide eggs. Pigs are overcrowded to the point where they can barely move. Chickens are kept in cages too small to turn around.

    These are the issues I concern myself with, but the fact of the matter is, most people eat meat. And if people don’t see these horrendous acts, they can pretend it doesn’t exist which is basically what I do. I ignore any article about animal cruelty in farms cause I know it’s only going to upset me.

    I live in Newfoundland and every year around the time of the seal hunt there’s always a protest to end the seal hunt. I’m for the seal hunt. I wouldn’t be able to personally kill a seal cause I just don’t have it in me nor do I like seal meat anyway. However, for animal rights groups getting all worked up over people going in the natural habitat and hunting is a bit ridiculous. These seals are not tortured for years or months on end from the moment they’re born til their death like animals in the farm are. I understand these groups are against any type of hunting but at the very least spread awareness of something that can’t fight back, cause there is more than one good argument for keeping the seal hunt open. However, for the life of me I don’t understand how it’s acceptable for farmers to not be required to build larger spaces for animals we kill in the millions each year. Just have some perspective.

    Anyways, I feel like I went on a bit of a rant there, most of which is just my own frustration but on a happier note. Love ya Ben, you were my personal favorite during your season. Keep on keeping.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Sarah-Jane, thanks so much for your perspective! I’m glad people are reading these old posts, they are among the greatest things to ever happen on my blog. Your issues with buying eggs and meat are incredibly valid…but easily remedied if you establish relationships with local farmers, or join a coop that stringently inspects the farms they buy from. Most egg hatcheries DO NOT crush the roosters…that’s a waste of money. 90% of the chicken meat you eat in the grocery store is from a castrated rooster called a capon. Killing baby roosters is throwing money in the toilet…the vast majority of hatcheries sell the roosters to meat farms. But MANY industrial farms do overcrowd their animals, which is why it’s great to have relationships with local family farms that don’t produce on an industrial scale.

      Most of the sensational articles that come out about the horrific conditions in animal production facilities represent the exception, rather than the rule. Don’t get me wrong…I DO NOT like the industrial meat production system one bit. I believe farm animals should like according to their nature. That means a cow grazes in a field until slaughter. A pig has mud to wallow in, an apple tree to forage under, and spoiled milk and table scraps to feast on. A chicken roosts in the tree or the coop at night, but otherwise has free reign over the entire farm to hunt for grasshoppers and fresh blades of sweet grass.

      The unfortunate reality is that if the country is going to consume animal products, there simply AREN’T enough small scale farms to supply “proper” meat and eggs and milk to everyone. Yes, there needs to be DRASTIC law reform in the agricultural sector, because we COULD be producing meat on an industrial scale in a more humane way. But not the natural way, unfortunately. However, not everyone in the country is willing to seek out local farmers to build relationships with, which means that if you and your family wish to do this, you CAN. I’m almost to the point where I don’t buy ANY animal products from the grocery store (except seafood), I get virtually everything from farmers I’m on a first-name basis with. Yes…it takes longer. Yes…it costs a little more, but not nearly as much as buying premium organic stuff in the gourmet market. But my cooking has turned into this amazing thing that I truly feel is NURTURING the world…not just my body and the people I feed. I am celebrating an animal that lived according to its nature. I am supporting local farmers and their families, who are doing the right thing, and my support helps them continue to do the right thing, and even expand. You CAN have a relationship with animal products that is healthy, wholesome, and beneficial for EVERYONE involved, including the animals. And the more of us that do this, rather than just opting-out of the system, the more power we have to CHANGE the system.

      (Not trying to convince you go back to animal products, this was just a general response. 🙂

  17. Hilary Stendell Gwilt Avatar

    Ben, you have helped me to clarify a lot in my own mind. My husband and I have started a microfarm kind of thing that I now blog about; we have two Khatadin ewes (one pregnant), four Barred Rock hens and eight silkie chicks. People ask me all the time if I’m actually going to be able to EAT that cute fuzzy thing. Yes. Yes, I will, and I will honor its cute, fuzzy face the whole time.

    1. Ben Avatar

      Hilary, what is the link to your blog, I would LOVE to check it out!

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